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Mel Lathouras Fearless Singer Podcast

Podcast for Singers 
Overcoming Fear to
LIVE LARGE - Unapologetically!

Join your painfully honest, humorous, big-hearted host, Fearless Singer Mel Lathouras, to talk about what’s holding us Singers back from living our dreams. 

This podcast is about empowering Singers to undo fear-based narratives that stop us from singing and expressing ourselves fully, creating our dream projects & music businesses. And talk to absolute bosses who are doing this work and succeeding.

Let's rise together! 

Mel Lathouras Fearless Singer Podcast Emma Sparks

Episode Highlights

As a long-time admirer of Singer-Songwriter Emma Dean, welcoming her to the Fearless Singer Podcast was an exciting fan-girl moment.

Emma's impressive accolades includes multiple albums, iconic projects like the Cheap Trill community choir, and a standout appearance at the Edinburgh Fringe Festival.

Beyond her thriving performing career, Emma is now a creativity coach, offering an upcoming 8-week course that delves into creative expression.

In this episode, we explore Emma’s journey, temporarily stifled by pre-teen bullying.

She shares how her high school music teacher helped her reclaim the stage, leading to her role as Audrey in The Little Shop of Horrors.

Emma discusses how bullying can foster a fear of standing out and stifling creativity, which ties into managing the inner critic. She offers practical techniques for breaking free from self-doubt and rediscovering creative flow.

'We also talk about the importance of creative communities, self-acceptance, the power of storytelling, pursuing happiness, and reframing success.

Emma also shares how her creative output now looks different with baby twinnies and how she has learnt to embrace her new pace.

Don’t miss this beautiful episode! You can also watch it on YouTube here. 

And if you’ve ever doubted your creative abilities, Emma’s 8-week course, Exploring Creativity, might be your answer – with early bird pricing ending today. Follow Emma on Insta. 

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Transcript 

Mel Lathouras 0:00
I mean, oh look I am so you have no idea how just buzzing I am to have the incredible Emma Dean on the Fearless Singer Podcast. Finally, this has been, you know, a long time in the making. Emma. If you are an Australian in the music scene, you'll know Emma Dean she is an incredible singer songwriter, super prolific. She is a creativity coach. She is also the founder and creator of Cheap Trill. And she now has created an incredible online eight week Creativity course, which I am very much doing. And I also have a partner, which I'm really excited about. This is Emma Dean. Welcome.

Emma Dean 0:53
Here. Wow, what an introduction. Thank you so much for having me on your podcast. Mel, I am a big fan of the podcast. I'm a listener, a regular listener. So it is a real thrill and a joy and an honour to be here with you today.

Mel Lathouras 1:10
Oh, thank you. This is by the way, just preface to everybody this is going to be me fangirling a lot. And during this interview,

Emma Dean 1:18
mutual fangirling I'm gonna be doing the same thing right back at you.

Mel Lathouras 1:26
Mr. I think I've no, not that I think I've inspired by you for such a long time. One you've just, to me, you're so prolific, you know, you you've just gone ahead and created some beautiful work. And not only that, I love that you, you know, you had a stint in New York and you came back and you created a community you know, with with cheap trills just take us back Is that something that you've always been inspired by this idea of community and people around you and, you know, sharing the love of singing me gypsy music,

Emma Dean 2:11
I think I have always been someone who finds a great deal of importance in community, but it's definitely grown as I have gotten older. I think in my younger years, when I was, you know, working a lot as a singer songwriter, my trajectory was very much about you know, trying to get my own music out there to the public. And there was always something about that particular path that felt a bit wrong to me. Not Not that there's anything wrong with wanting to do that. But I felt that there was something more I needed. So, you know, somewhere along the way, I kind of got this idea to kind of turn the audio I used to say to my audience that you know, come and come to my shows and wear something you've always wanted to wear but have never had the guts to and like this is a really, you know, safe space for us. And I kind of approached it in a very community minded way, all of my concepts. That's what it kind of felt like a bit of a family. A collection of kind of weirdos coming together and like just, you know, embracing the fact that we were all you know, really diverse and and a bit weird and I and and celebrating that. So it kind of I which is very much what my choir feels like now. So somewhere along the way, and I I mean I can pinpoint the exact moment it was when I was in New York and long story short, marriage was kind of unravelling, and I ended up with my then husband coming back home to Australia, longing for connection longing for community needing to reignite my musical spark. I started a choir or a singing group, which then kind of snowballed into this into this choir that has brought me so much joy and re instilled the importance of community and connection and why I do music, which is, I think to connect with others to share my story to hear other people's stories, I feel like that's where healing comes from when we, yeah, when we when we stand in front of each other and share openly and honestly, you and realise that we are not alone? You know, I think yeah, so that was a very long winded way of like,

Mel Lathouras 5:30
so much in there. It's beautiful. Yeah, definitely, um, you mentioned the word connection and the sharing of stories, and I love that, you know, you have, you have created a choir, but even you created the situation that your audience, even at your shows, were a part of the performance, you know, they were part of it, you know, and, and you, and this is what I think this is why I really adore you, you give people permission to be themselves, you really, and I've seen that through not just with with myself. But I taught a lovely young person called Jasper and for a bit and I saw that Jasper would Oh,

Emma Dean 6:21
yeah, just the same. I know.

Mel Lathouras 6:25
And, you know, and they've from I saw them, come over to the choir, and just, um, like, I know, you know, Jasper was a massive Uber fan of you. And we, you know, we looked at some of your songs, but just watching them just become more of themselves through that connection with you. And it was, yeah, that's what you do. That's your, like, oh, you're a singer songwriter, but also that's your service is you let people, you know, you see the higher version of people and, and they, they blossom into that, you know, in that in that space that you create, whether it's, you know, at a show, or as a community singing group, that is so

Emma Dean 7:13
lovely to have that reflected back. To me, I think that's something you do as well, Mel, and I don't know, if you relate to this fit. For me, it's something I've found very difficult to do for myself. So I have always really, really, really struggled with finding like that sense of belonging, kind of, you know, really embracing my uniqueness all through my life. And I wonder if people who kind of lead groups often have that same problem, you know, that it's the thing that they find so hard to do for themselves, but they can identify that in other people. And it's easier to kind of, you know, let other people shine and encourage them to shine and be themselves than it is to turn that around for yourself. So I guess, you know what I mean? Yeah. Lately, it's been a very reciprocal kind of arrangement with my choir, because, you know, I obviously love it. You know, giving people the space and the opportunity for them to find their voice, their uniqueness, they their own, you know, that thing that makes them them. But they do that in return to me as well. Like, I feel like the most authentic version of myself when I'm standing in front of that group of people, and they allow me to shine. Yeah, it's just a beautiful, beautiful thing we got going.

Mel Lathouras 9:09
I remember you telling a story. I don't know what it was when I was listening to you talk about it. On another podcast. We both love Sam Buckingham, and you are on her podcast and I loved your episode, and it got so much out of it. But you when you're young, you would lead grit like you would put on performances and kind of take the lead and so yeah, obviously there is a bit of a you know, there hasn't changed. But did you feel like you did you struggle a little bit to sort of fit in at school and therefore, those leadership positions, because it was a way of, you know, okay, if I'm not gonna fit in, I'm gonna create my own little subculture here. You know, yeah.

Emma Dean 9:52
And I think the the journey for me has been, you know, I was I've always been really shy. So that's, that's, that's always been a thing. But I've always loved performing always. And I know, I know you have you relate to that as well, like, you know, just loving being on stage when I was a kid, I danced and, and I used to put on these amazing Well, I think there are amazing like, concerts for our parents with the kids on the street. So they'd be like, interactive concerts, we put on our skates, and we would take our audience on a journey with us as we skated down the street. And then, and usually, that ended with me in the splits, hands out, like, I mean, just reduce total show off. And then in late primary school, I had this very traumatic event happen, where it's a long story, but there was a very severe bullying incident that resulted in me kind of changing forever. And at that moment, this is grade seven, I remember it so vividly. I kind of lost my voice, and it took me probably it's taken me my whole lifetime to, to feel okay, with shining brightly, because the, the message I received in that moment was that I was too much, you're too up, you're up yourself, you know, is that whole tall, Poppy? thing. I was a girl, you know, I wasn't allowed to be these things, you know, I wasn't allowed to shine. And, and so I taught myself how to be really quiet. I didn't, I didn't sing I, you know, I, it took me a really long time to kind of Yeah, to feel to feel to feel okay. And I actually wrote a cabaret called Broken romantics. And a unicorns quest for love, where I talk a lot about this idea of like, you know, shining our light, which sounds so cliched, but I feel like there are so many people, particularly women, and creative women who feel it is so much better or easier to dull the light and make everyone around them feel comfortable that it is to shine brightly, and to be yourself. And that's been a lifelong lesson. And, you know, for me, for me to learn. So, yes, I guess to answer your question, I, I. Yeah, I will actually, I don't even know how to answer the question. Because perhaps it's me, you know, the fact that I found myself in these, I guess leadership positions came from instead of trying to insert myself into into an already existing group, it kind of was easier or felt better for me to kind of go, here's what I'm about. If you're if you like that, come and and. And I'll nurture you, because I really know how it feels to need to be nurtured.

Mel Lathouras 13:36
And except. Yeah. Thanks for sharing that. I think a lot of people can relate to them, especially to bullying. Same I've had similar, you know, experience. And yeah, you do you learn to just go oh, you know, just blend in, you know, you don't want to, you know, you don't want to upset the applecart and you don't want to be too much. That's, you know, something that's shoved down all of our throats or has been, yeah. Did you have a better time during high school? Did things get better after grade seven? Or was it just kind of the same same? And then, you know,

Emma Dean 14:20
I had a bit of a rough time, I think, at school, not that there was so that was, you know, the bullying incidents. That was that was the big one for me. But I think my mental health kind of really took a bit of a hit, and I think I struggled a lot with self worth, and all of those sorts of things. So So yeah, I definitely had a tumultuous kind of school. Period. But I will never forget I had this amazing been a teacher, a music teacher and drama teacher Narelle McCoy. And we're still friends. Like we still talk, which is just it just blows my mind so much. But um, she, I had a particularly horrible time in grade 12 You know how to play I went to hospital. And when I when I came back to school I she said to me, Look, we're doing the school musical. And it's Little Shop of Horrors. We haven't found out Audrey, Audrey is the lead character of this particular musical, can you audition? And I said, I don't think so I just, you know, had lost at this point just lost confidence. I wasn't really a, I didn't consider myself a theatrical performer. She said, Come on, just just please audition. So I auditioned, got the role. And I think that moment was so pivotal for me, it was like someone else believed in me. And, and music as it did, time and time again, after that saved me, you know, like, music just, and me standing on stage and kind of sharing my, even though I was playing a character, but you know, relating so much to the music and sharing a little part of myself with an audience was just so incredibly healing. As beautiful. Yeah.

Mel Lathouras 16:39
I know that. Earth Angels, you know, exists in many different forms. And, um, I just, you know, want to reiterate, if a young person is listening to this, and you're having a particularly hard time, look, look for the, those little beacons of light the people, they're ready, willing to help you just look for them. Yeah. Yeah. And, and thank you to the morale to Oh, otherwise, we wouldn't have this incredible, you know, beautiful performer that is, you know, through your own healing, you've healed other people as well helped them to heal. Do you feel like so? What, how did you? So obviously, that was a pivotal point. What are some of the things that has helped you? Just, it's interesting, because you interviewed me on this. Because obviously, you know, when you have suffered that kind of trauma, which comes from, from bullying, and it is, it's, it's pretty serious. If you've been on the on the other end of it, it's, it's pretty fucked. I'm like, what are some of the things that is that's really helped you quieten? That inner critic that has, you know, obviously been a result of the those those negative people or, you know, things that have happened in your life? What, what modalities help you?

Emma Dean 18:01
Such a good question. And, and it's something I just want to and we talked about this, you know, I interviewed you, of course, for my creativity course, on this very topic. Meeting the inner critic, I really don't believe you ever switch off that inner critic, I think it's about Yeah, like learning to live with them, and having that relationship with them. So for me, one of the big things, and it's really simple, that helps me is moving my body, it's movement. So whether that is going on a jog, going to the gym, dancing it out, like in the it's like I have to get out of my head and into my body. So that's probably the number one thing that helps me. I guess my version of journaling is writing songs. So just, and that's something that I've found challenging as a new mother, because, you know, once upon a time, I was able to kind of go, Okay, I'm feeling this thing. I need to get it out. I'm just going to do it now. And of course, they'll I can't I can't always do that when I'm looking after too. Little 2010 Almost 10 month old twins. So so that's something that you know, I have to figure out I think moving forward, how do i What's the new version of like sitting down and just pumping out a song to kind of get get things moving? And also for me, just talking to people and I have some really beautiful people in my life who I get it. Um, and you know recently even like reaching out to you because I know you understand what it's like to be a creative person within a loud inner critic at times. So having those safe people to kind of just bounce ideas off and just get get things out in terms of like meditation and things I don't I don't I don't. I've gone through phases of meditating and and tapping. But those are things i i The seasonal, I'd love to do them more but those are probably the same. Yeah, really?

Mel Lathouras 20:45
Yeah. Yesterday I'll go through phases of meditation and then I stop and same with tapping as well. But yeah, you do find your your you know your faithful so the things that you just know that is going to instantly change my mood. And yeah, me navigate this. Loud, Harry. I just pitch to them as this like Harry Greek. Like a little Demis Roussos in my head going? Where are you? I love that. I love that. Shut up. Demis it isn't it I'm clear about it. She gave her inner critic an actual Yeah,

Emma Dean 21:24
because it Frank Silas Oh, silence. Such an asshole.

Mel Lathouras 21:31
And you can go Silas and you really like yeah, no. Oh, tastic look, oh, beautiful, beautiful offerings of what you do to help with that. Now, when you're so like, yeah, 20s 30s Super prolific with songwriting. Super prolific, and creativity, you know, in general, and I just want to acknowledge that your music represents just so authentically you and and yeah, it honestly is so inspiring. Now, things have changed ever so slightly, haven't they? Oh, slightly, though, you're like you are pushing out all these, you know, Song babies and creativity babies. But now things has, like it's changed. But you're still doing these creating these incredible offerings as well like this Creativity course. But talk us through how things have changed since the two little twins have come into your life?

Emma Dean 22:39
Yeah, oh, look, it's um, it has changed, my life has changed so so much. And I wouldn't change it for the world. But certain things that, you know, I was used to doing are now really, really challenging, you know, and it's really hard to find it. And the funny thing is, I feel like these babies have brought so much creativity into my life. So I just have all these ideas and so much excitement around creativity and music. But I don't have the same amount of time surely, like turn these ideas into some sort of something tangible was you know reality. So for me, I I've been definitely still writing music and trying to do that in just the the spare moments I have. And I've also the big kind of creative baby that I'm birthing at the moment is my eight week online course which is called Exploring creativity. And I've written it for busy people like me to sprinkle some beautiful magical, creative practices into their life to introduce playfulness and joy all of these things that I think we don't often carve out enough time for. And and basically each week takes the participant through a different theme related to creativity such as the week that I interviewed you is all about meeting the inner critic has different weeks like the creativity colonic which is all about unblocking the creative pipes and, and making a start, like how do you actually make a start? How do you turn this idea into something? So there's different different topics, and I'm hoping that it will, that it will bring joy to, to people. It's a very doable, accessible course. Because I guess I am a big believer that creativity is kind of everything, you know, we are all creative. Creativity is the catalyst of change within ourselves change within the world. It's the catalyst for connection, that's, you know, the power of sharing our stories is immense. And yet, society kind of doesn't place enough emphasis on that. Yeah, like the power that that the creativity holds. So if I can reach as many people as possible, and give them a little slice of that, I'd be I'll be very happy.

Mel Lathouras 26:13
That's beautiful. It actually, to be honest, even though it is a course on creativity, I feel like it's going to be more of a self exploration. Yeah, spiritual course. You know, in removing some of those, not, maybe not so much, removing even just being aware of some of those moments in our life where we've, we've been told to shut it down, come on too much, turn it down, turn the knob down, and start to bring some awareness to that. And to even question that, like, was that you know, what, why, why did I stop painting? Yes, I stopped putting on little shows, and stuff like that, and start to be curious about that. Because perhaps this course is really a catalyst of like, starting to, to get that difference that, you know, take nine and

Emma Dean 27:09
10. And you're so so right. I think so many of us carry those stories from our childhood, you know, that, for me, you're too fat to do ballet. Oh, god, okay, you know, you don't blend with the choir. So don't sing. You know, we carry this and, and we've, and it means we miss out on so much joy, because we're so worried about these stories that are absolute, most of the time bullshit. I think creativity, you know, you, you have to ask the question, you know, who am I? And what do I want to say? And those are big questions. And so I think the, the course, as you just said, is very much about self reflection and self discovery, and figuring out and remembering like, what do I actually like? What am I like to do? What brings me joy, because we sometimes forget to ask that we're so bogged down in, you know, like, looking after twins, or, or our business or, you know, doing the washing and didn't did all of these things that we kind of just forget to check in. And this is, this is the opportunity to check in, and have fun play play in the playground.

Mel Lathouras 28:33
That's the other thing permission to play. Like, yeah, when did when did we think it was appropriate to stop playing? You know, I know, also so sad. I know, some of the most incredible, you know, inventions that have brought us, you know, have changed our lives came from people experimenting. Wrong many, many times, but they didn't care. They just kept going until they found you know, the solution.

Emma Dean 29:08
It's so true. Michael Jackson. I read this the other day, Michael Jackson, and Quincy Jones went through 800 songs to get the nine songs on the Thriller album. So 800 Like, you know, and people are so worried about failing, you know, and yeah, I think it takes so much creative work to pan for the goal, right? It's yeah, experiment, experiment and keep experimenting until you find something that that feels right. You know, it takes time.

Mel Lathouras 29:50
Yes. It comes down to because I reckon if they could have chosen other songs and it was still would have been a hit, did they Yeah, between both of them in their, you know, their relationship and their shared values. They, you know, they decided on the songs that felt like in alignment. That's right one would think anyway. Absolutely. Yeah. So yeah, I don't believe in failure. I just think it's just like, oh, that just didn't quite, wasn't quite right. For the moment. Yeah, we're gonna, we're gonna keep going. And we, you know, that's what we learned. It's just data. And also to something that's exciting for me is, you know, because just growing up, you know, I've, I've had my fair share of criticism from, you know, different people, and you know, you do as a young person, you take that on as, like a flaw, you know, but, ya know, and then, but then learning that, you know, that's their opinion. That's not necessarily true. But I had this moment last week, where I was like, oh, you know what, it's probably taken me to 40. But that's okay. I don't care even if it took me till 60 or 70. So unless you get there, but I went to an audition. And I left it to the day off to sort of learn my part and all the rest of it, which was it really was kind of silly, because but also at the same time, I've got a lot going on. There's a lot of projects that you're balancing, and yeah, it got to the day and I was like, Okay, well, I'm gonna give it a good, you know, good solid crack. So, I got to the audition, and I thought I had it memorised it wasn't there. And I had to use my paper and you know, and then I kind of went and sat down, I thought, You know what, you haven't got it, darling. And that's okay. You know, cuz I went there, there was all these fabulous musical theatre students. And they had all learned off by heart, and they were guns. And I said, so sit down and just enjoy the show, you know, are these beautiful young people, the talent in Brisbane is so phenomenal that it blew my mind to the point where I just left levitating because it was so lovely. It was Alex vanderhoek and Nomi price whether to Oh, and the kindest, most intelligent people, you know, you could come across so even just being able to witness them in their, you know, in them shining in this order. Yes, it was just so lovely. Um, so I left and I just went, that's okay, because I really enjoyed that. And I think when you get to a place of being able to reframe quick things quickly and going, okay, yeah, you didn't, you weren't it definitely, those young people that were there were just phenomenal. And it doesn't mean that I'm not phenomenal. It just means that you know, starting to see things how they are you just left it to the last minute to do something. You know? And then also then question go, you should you've really, you know, done it, but that's okay, you did it. And you had a good time. And I think if we can start getting into that place of you know, I didn't get it this time. But you know, maybe I'll if I want it again next year. I'll do it next year or so same thing with the Matilda's last night, I was so incredibly proud of them. I thought they just played with so much heart. And, you know, and I know that they'd be so disappointed, but I also think, oh my God, look what they've done for LGBTQI. You know, like, in with exposure, they've done such incredible things, even on a much bigger social scale than, you know, the just the sport the game, you know? Yes. Um, so it's just sort of starting to see things from the bigger picture and as much as you can, you little Demis Roussos saw your little Silas will come in and try to tell you otherwise. But just being like, shush now. Yeah, no, yes. That's going to see the bigger picture here. You identify with that? Oh, you're like, you know, we get to an age where you just start to reframe things pretty quickly now, which is really helpful.

Emma Dean 34:15
Definitely, I think. I think it's something that really takes practice, you know, it's does it is easier to tell yourself this story. I failed. It's because I'm not good enough. Or like, you know, I'm never what they're looking for. And it's so much easier to kind of, yeah, to listen to those. Those thoughts than it is to kind of go no, let's just let's reframe this and and could it have been because I wasn't prepared. Does that mean that I'm not worthy of this? Does that mean I'm bad? No, it doesn't. Does it mean I'm a bad person? No, it doesn't, you know, and it's like practising all of that which can be tricky in the moment. I think but, but it's so beneficial. And it for for the longevity of a creative career is kind of essential like you, you have to kind of get to that point. Otherwise, you're gonna stop, you're gonna listen to that story on you. And

Mel Lathouras 35:19
that's it. I just want to reiterate even though I kept referring to my age or you get to an age, I think you can get this at any time of your life. It's ages, you know? Yeah, yeah. And like, and just coming back to what you said. It does just take practice, like anything practising those reframes. Do you think it's important to feel the disappointment first, before you do the reframe?

Emma Dean 35:42
I think I think it is important. I think it's very hard not to, you know, I think it's I certainly in those moments have, oh, I'm a person who, you know, if I really allow myself to feel something fully, I can get very, very, very bogged down in those stories. So I allow myself to feel it. But really quickly, I have to kind of go Alright, pick yourself up, pick yourself up.

Mel Lathouras 36:17
As it is that it can

Emma Dean 36:19
be a spiral. Yeah, but I think I think it's, it's just as dangerous to suppress your feelings. Absolutely. Like that's, that's not helpful or healthy either.

Mel Lathouras 36:31
That's another thing about last night's game. So when I'm talking about sport obit majors, the other thing look what the midfielders did for us. Yeah, having the World Cup here in Australia as well. But the other thing is the just watching the English team, you know, they would get knocked down like we'd all the ball would hit them in their head, and they'll literally fall to the ground. Yeah, one thing I noticed they kept zooming in on their faces, they got up and they had a smile on their face. Wow. And it was an eye, like I do. Like I said, it's important not to suppress, but it was just I went off, that's them not dwelling. Because if you if you're dwelling for a moment, you because you've got a time limit. You're you're off focus. So I was like that is strategy right there. That's

Unknown Speaker 37:20
awesome. Yeah, and it's the same thing with

Mel Lathouras 37:23
little babies, you know, when they fall, but it's not, you know, it's not terrible, you know, but if you don't go Oh, then they won't cry. But if you just go, ah, you know, and they are happy. So it's a little bit like that, too. So

Emma Dean 37:38
true. So true. It's almost like tricking yourself into you know, but you know, in a healthy way. Not in as depressing. But I think, yeah, it's definitely circumstantial, for sure. Like when you do have that time limit, if you are playing a game of soccer, and you know, you don't have time to dwell on something, or if you're in the middle of performance, and you forget your lines translates, you know, on

Mel Lathouras 38:07
the stage, let's write how many times I mean, God, I'm so guilty of just saying, it's normally when I say something stupid with my banter and the joke, and then you're like, I'm a complete, neurotic, which I am, by the way, by that, um, you know, and then when I dwell on it for too long, then the vibe kind of goes down. But yeah, that if I just go Yeah, that was probably that was a bit of dumb shit that came out of your mouth. But let's move on. Yeah. Pennsic Yes, the momentum and energy. One thing I want to mention, though, it's something that you've alluded to, is this idea of separating this idea of self worth to your creative output. You know, I think it's easy to sort of, you know, forget that, that this that, you know, you are like, even though this was something that you, you were you're a conduit and you gave creative birth to this thing, whether it's a painting or a piece of you know, music or you know, yeah, can you talk on that that idea of separating self worth from whatever it is that you make?

Emma Dean 39:19
Yeah, I think that's particularly difficult for singers because, you know, we're using the most personal tool, we have our voice. So if someone doesn't like our voice, we can translate that into this person doesn't like me, this person doesn't like who I am and that's not true. But you can see how easy it is to kind of get those two things very you know, very linked up. I end to be very honest, you know, it's something that I've always struggled with that, you know, if I'm not if my art is not successful, if whatever that means, if if, you know, I get a bad review, that, you know, somehow that means that I'm like, not a worthy person. So I've had to do huge amounts of work on on that. And I think part of that was reframing what the word successful and, and making it what those those terms meant to me. And they weren't, you know, for me, I had to really differentiate between, you know, getting a good review, you know, getting on the charts or on the radio or whatever, whatever it is, that is not about success, or making it for me success and making it is about my happiness, it's about creating work that I'm proud of, it's about connecting and, and building community. It's about, you know, an element of financial stability, from my, from my creativity. So, I had to really think about that. And I did that, that, that kind of work shopping, when I moved back to Australia, from New York, because I just knew that something had to change, I had to reframe my life. And I think that has really helped me disconnect that, you know, my self worth with my success as an artist or people liking my heart.

Mel Lathouras 41:53
Yeah, that's wonderful. And I think that's something that will definitely be covered in the eight week course as well. Yeah, and I just, I just really love your message around, you know, with this Creativity course with, you know, it can, even though it is sort of delivered in the eight weeks, and if your own pace, isn't it? It's yeah, so at your own pace,

Emma Dean 42:19
right. So yes, every week, there's a different lesson that I send through. But when I say less than they said, it's a PDF. And it's also me, I give an option, like an audio option. So I'm reading the lesson. And then some exercises that you can do in your own time. And you can even, you know, well, I encourage people, of course, to do all of the exercises. But you can engage with the bits that feel right for you, as well. And then every two weeks, we meet on Zoom, and we kind of connect and chat and share and debrief. There's also a Facebook group that people optional, completely optional for people to join, and I'll be I'll be on that Facebook group answering questions, and people can share their work and ask questions and things like that on there as well. So there's lots of interaction with me throughout those eight weeks, but the exercises themselves are self paced. Yeah, weekly.

Mel Lathouras 43:24
Yeah, that's it. So if anyone's listening and you know, you do have a demanding job, or you have children, this is actually just going to be such a beautiful opportunity just to cut out that little bit of time for yourself, you know, and to, to play and to reflect and experiment. And yeah, it's kind of it sounds like it's gonna be a lot of fun. And I love I love love the Yeah, the meet ups on zoom as well. So you know, yeah, essentially, you know, that's, that's group coaching. That's, that's right. Hugely valuable, Mr. USA, generous. Honestly, like those sessions, yeah. Just worth every penny, as well as the material and plus the Facebook group. And, you know, that's the other thing too. It's just great to take that information and be able to reflect that back to other people that you, you know, you feel safe with and I know with you you're going to create a safe space within in that. Oh, I have a zoom meetings.

Emma Dean 44:40
Absolutely. That's sort of hugely

Mel Lathouras 44:43
important to me who you are.

Emma Dean 44:47
Yeah, I know. I know how scary it can be to share your art or even ask a question in like, in a public forum, I totally get it. So yes, I will be the ideas that I hold hold your hand through the eight weeks. And, and it is a beautiful group signed up already including my mom, who is a gorgeous writer. She writes poetry, lots of poetry and has a particular interest in haikus. At the moment, she has been doing courses on haiku writing, she's super beautiful. So it's for people who you don't have to. You don't have to have a particular creative outlet at the moment. But if you do, it doesn't have to be anything in particular. Yes. Music is my main thing. You don't have to know anything about music. You know? Yeah. It's it's about playing creatively in general. And, and yeah, it's gonna be a lot of fun. I think I hope.

Mel Lathouras 45:57
Of course it will be. So I'll put I'll put links in the show notes. But if you go to msdn.com, you'll find Yeah, so it's exploring creativity eight week course. And it's only $249. At the early bird price.

Unknown Speaker 46:13
Yeah. That's

Mel Lathouras 46:15
incredibly accessible. And yes,

Emma Dean 46:17
our Yes, please do sign up.

Mel Lathouras 46:21
When do we have until it goes up in price?

Speaker 2 46:25
I think it will be as the beginning of September is when the full price, which is 347. So it's 100. Still worth it? Yeah, yeah, definitely. So

Mel Lathouras 46:41
yeah. With all the Zoom meetings and material.

Emma Dean 46:45
Yeah, it should be a really good time. And if you have any questions, feel free to email me at [email protected].

Mel Lathouras 46:53
The other thing too, is you also offer one on one coaching as well, too. If you'd like to spend some more time with me, reach out. You're also at MSDN. On Instagram.

Emma Dean 47:06
Yeah, Dean music and music. That's right. Graham,

Mel Lathouras 47:10
if you just search for Emma D on Facebook, you'll come up as well. The Facebook page. Yeah. Oh, you're such a pleasure.

Unknown Speaker 47:20
Oh, you are,

Mel Lathouras 47:23
too. It's so funny. I think I kind of woke up today. And I was like, this is I'm also going to be booking I've done a session with you. But I'm also booking in another one because I did I woke up going, oh my god, I just need a dose of Emma. And oh, that you see things in the way that you coach us through, you know, some of those stickier beliefs. You know, you're very good.

Emma Dean 47:51
Thank you. Well, it will be a pleasure to work with you again. So I look forward to that.

Mel Lathouras 47:58
Yes. Yeah. Thank you so much for being on the listening a podcast. Thank you so much for having me. That's a lots of love. Lots of love.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai